effectiveness of max health lowering ie gash/deep wound? (pve) - Guild Wars Forums

eom · Dec 08, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

seems kind of pointless --- what would be a useful situation?

I'm w/n and by the time I get my adren up, his helath has already been lowered.
my partner is e/m, so the surrounding mob has also been lowered.

if he is already below 80%, deep wound doesn't actually do any damage, does it?

I'd test myself, but I only get 1 day/week on lan, so this has to be my lab.

edit ps

re: extra damage skills like galrath slash, etc

do you actually get the damage listed, or is it modded by levels, attribute scores, and armor?

thx

Savio · Dec 08, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Deep Wound lowers max health by 20% and also does damage equal to 20% max health. As long as they're not below 20% health, it'll be completely effective.

As to how deadly Deep Wound is, it's one of the most devastating (well, not through Gash really). Since it also lowers healing by 20%, your attacks effectively do 25% more damage.

eom · Dec 08, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

so, if the foe has a max total of 100 hitpoints, it will bring him down to 80 if he's in the 81-100 range, but otherwise just lowers his ceiling (when he's in the 1-80 range), right?

don't see that doing much good in my particular situation in pve.
you can't layer that stuff, can you?

I would have to find a way to pump my adren and use it vs a pristine opponent.
I could maybe do that --- what kind of hps do monsters have?
right now I'm lvl 15 in kryta, and I'm guessing monsters are maybe lvl 8.....?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

As to how deadly Deep Wound is, it's one of the most devastating (well, not through Gash really). Since it also lowers healing by 20%, your attacks effectively do 25% more damage.

I don't think I get that last part.
also remember, we're talking strictly pve.

Savio · Dec 08, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Say an enemy has 100 health. Your ultimate attack - I dunno, Final Thrust maybe) - does 100 damage, which is 100/100 = 100% effective.

Now, you get him with Deep Wound. Ignoring DW damage, he has 80 health now. You do 100 damage, which is 100/80 = 125% effective damage. If he was at full health, it'd be like you hit him for 125 damage rather than 100.

Former Ruling · Dec 08, 2005, 11:59 PM // 23:59

When it lowers their max HP - it also in doing that Deals 20% of their max HP to them.

If his health is 100/100, you deep wound him - His Health is 80/80 (you took 20 from it).

If his health is 60/100, you deep wound him - His health is then 40/80 (you took 20 from it).

If his health would be 60/80, and I get your point if that was the case - using it on a non-dmged enemy would be the only way to see good benefits from it. Just rememer when it is lowered by 20% - It TAKES 20% of their Health with it...i think

I think thats what Savio's orignal thing meant.

Though I dont deep wound things myself :\

Savio · Dec 09, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

When it lowers their max HP - it also in doing that Deals 20% of their max HP to them.

If his health is 100/100, you deep wound him - His Health is 80/80 (you took 20 from it).

If his health is 60/100, you deep wound him - His health is then 40/80 (you took 20 from it).

If his health would be 60/80, and I get your point if that was the case - using it on a non-dmged enemy would be the only way to see good benefits from it. Just rememer when it is lowered by 20% - It TAKES 20% of their Health with it...i think

I think thats what Savio's orignal thing meant.

Though I dont deep wound things myself :\

Oh yeah, that part too. So by Former's example, if the person is at 20/80 or below, then I don't think the Deep Wound does the damage. I so hate having a broken computer right now.

eom · Dec 09, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

If his health is 60/100, you deep wound him - His health is then 40/80 (you took 20 from it).

ahhh...that's what I was wondering --- if that's really the case, then it's superkickass.

ps -- savio

I don't get that example at all.

ok, to clear the confusion:
what I am wondering is if this thing does any damage at all to a target currently w/80% or less of it's total max hps.

let's now say the foe has 400 total max and I hit him w/galrath's slash that does 40.
if I had deep wounded him first, how do I do 25% more w/the slash?
in both the case where he's untouched and the case where he's at half hps -- 200.

Savio · Dec 09, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Ok, you do 40 damage to a 400 hp enemy - that's 10% of his health (40/400).

Cause Deep Wound on him - he's now down to 320 health (80% of 400).

Hit him with 40 damage again - that's 12.5% of his health (40/320).

12.5 is 125% of 10. So effectively you're doing 125% of the damage you're normally doing.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing... just understand that any damage is more effective with Deep Wound.

Shimus DarkRaven · Dec 09, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Ok, you do 40 damage to a 400 hp enemy - that's 10% of his health (40/400).

Cause Deep Wound on him - he's now down to 320 health (80% of 400).

Hit him with 40 damage again - that's 12.5% of his health (40/320).

12.5 is 125% of 10. So effectively you're doing 125% of the damage you're normally doing.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing... just understand that any damage is more effective with Deep Wound.

Well, without making this any simpler, Eom, put it like Savio did. Just understand damage is more effective with Deep wound on em, and successive hits rock that afterward. IE: Sever artery, Gash, <any other power attacks> = Bleeding, deep wounded, hurt hurt person unless they got a cleric mending condition

--The Shim

Former Ruling · Dec 09, 2005, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Simply - You ARE NOT doing any extra dmg than what you would be doing - Its just that the dmg happens to take more percentage of his health.

Like 10 dmg to a 100 hp guy would be only 10% of his hp gone, but 10 dmg to an 11 hp guy..thats nearly 98% of his hp gone.

eom · Dec 09, 2005, 12:19 AM // 00:19

wouldn't that just be the case of any damage following any other damage, if you spin it like that?
doesn't each one of my blows do proportionately more damage if I just look at it in terms of their current health?

also, if this 400 hp foe is currently at 200 when I deep wound him, will I actually do the 80 (20%) damage to him, or does it just lower his ceiling to 320 in case of healing?

Shimus DarkRaven · Dec 09, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

wouldn't that just be the case of any damage following any other damage, if you spin it like that?
doesn't each one of my blows do proportionately more damage if I just look at it in terms of their current health?

also, if this 400 hp foe is currently at 200 when I deep wound him, will I actually do the 80 (20%) damage to him, or does it just lower his ceiling to 320 in case of healing?

I believe it does both. By hitting them with deep wound say at 20% down from 200 will inflict <40 damage>, also lowering his hp by 20% to 160 hp for the duration of the status condition. Keep in mind this blow is calculated after the drop in HP and the attack successfully going through, at least on my experience when I deep wound.

--The Shim

eom · Dec 09, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimus DarkRaven

I believe it does both. By hitting them with deep wound say at 20% down from 200 will inflict <40 damage>, also lowering his hp by 20% to 160 hp for the duration of the status condition. Keep in mind this blow is calculated after the drop in HP and the attack successfully going through, at least on my experience when I deep wound.

--The Shim

what????
that can't be right.

so, you mean to tell me that on a 400 hp opponent, who has been brought down to 100, I can deep wound him and effectively cap him out so he can't be healed past 80 for the duration of the wound?
that would kick ass.

and I don't understand your last sentence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

edit ps

re: extra damage skills like galrath slash, etc

do you actually get the damage listed, or is it modded by levels, attribute scores, and armor?

thx

also, anybody want to comment on this part?

and what's so great about bleeding?
it was great in presear, but now....?

Shimus DarkRaven · Dec 09, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

what????
that can't be right.

so, you mean to tell me that on a 400 hp opponent, who has been brought down to 100, I can deep wound him and effectively cap him out so he can't be healed past 80 for the duration of the wound?
that would kick ass.

and I don't understand your last sentence.

No, no. Not that way. It works off both HP %'s..
Say he has 400, and he's down to 100, you still can deep wound, but it drops his overall hp, down 20% from 400 to 320hp but also damaging him that 20% loss on his current HP fur the duration that he can healed too, not 80 from 100.

Example: HP: 400 <---
Current: 100
Deepwound: 20%
Current 80/320

That is what I mean, I could be wrong, but eh...

--The Shim

Rico Carridan · Dec 09, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

You're making this too complicated, this is basically all you need to know:
If you hit an opponent with deep wound, their current and maximum health are both reduced by 20%. That's all there is to it.

Rico

eom · Dec 09, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Carridan

You're making this too complicated, this is basically all you need to know:
If you hit an opponent with deep wound, their current and maximum health are both reduced by 20%. That's all there is to it.

Rico

like this?:

Example: HP: 400
Current: 100
Deepwound: 20%
Current 80/320

ok, that's cool then, I guess.

you can't layer it, can you?

Shimus DarkRaven · Dec 09, 2005, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

like this?:

Example: HP: 400
Current: 100
Deepwound: 20%
Current 80/320

ok, that's cool then, I guess.

you can't layer it, can you?

Nope. can't layer it..would superpower warriors ^_-

--The Shim

Yukito Kunisaki · Dec 09, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Deep Wound used to be bugged in that you can layer it...

It's a good thing they stopped it, otherwise, everyone with a brain would go axe...

What makes deep wound dangerous is that it lets you kill things super fast and the damage can be a lot worse then one would expect. 20% less hp and 20% less healing? big whup right? [wrong...]

Imagine this, you're pounding on a foe [pvp or pve doesn't matter] and he/she dies and your adrenal skills are full. Let's use the classic Eviscerate and Exe. Strike.

The next foe, who's armored or not, gets walloped at full hp with Eviscerate {E}, he immediately, for critical's sake, loses 100hp from the swing, assuming max level and it was a critical hit. 20% of 500 hp [which is the average for those pesky lvl 23+ enemies or vigor fortitude people in pvp] is 100. You just landed 200 dmg in one swing approximately. Your second swing is Exe. Strike which also hits for 100 dmg. So with just 2 hits with an axe, assuming double crit, you've just carved off 300 dmg in 2 seconds. If the enemy's hp was at 60%, they should be dead...

In terms of sword, the 'classic' combo, which I dislike due to uncontrolled variables is

Sever Artery, Gash, Galrath Slash, Final Thrust

It takes twice as long to do as an axe's spike, but what's so deadly about it is that it lands bleeding + deep wound, a spike, and a super spike in 4 seconds and I've seen this combo kill soft targets in one use no questions asked and deals 80% dmg to an unprepared warrior...

Deep wound technically let's you kill things faster. Why WOULDN'T you want it? Geez...

Glasswalker · Dec 09, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Well put Yukito. The additional side to Deep Wound has been touched on, but not truly explained -- and that's the 20% less healing.

If you hit someone with max HP of 400 who is currently at full health, you lower their max by 80, so their new max for the duration of DW is 320. Then the damage is calculated in and (not counting on the crit) you do 28 damage with the swing itself they are at 292 of 320. You follow up with an Executioner's Strike doing 54 damage (he's now at 238 of 320). He uses Healing Signet, which at Tactics of 4 would usually heal for 70 points now only heals for 56 bringing him up to 294 instead of 308. Some argue that this 'effectively' means your ES did 14 extra damage. That is why people say that DW makes your other skills do more damage.

In my experience, the fun part of this skill is when you use it at the end of a chain. 20% of their max health seams like a more significant drop when they only have 70 HP left.

Oh, and one other thing. The Monk Enchantment Protective Spirit doesn't allow health to drop by more than 10% with a single attack, but if you use a DW skill on someone when they are at full health, their Max (and therefore their current) health drops by 20% anyway.

eom · Dec 09, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Imagine this, you're pounding on a foe [pvp or pve doesn't matter] and he/she dies and your adrenal skills are full. Let's use the classic Eviscerate and Exe. Strike.

The next foe, who's armored or not, gets walloped at full hp with Eviscerate {E}, he immediately, for critical's sake, loses 100hp from the swing, assuming max level and it was a critical hit. 20% of 500 hp [which is the average for those pesky lvl 23+ enemies or vigor fortitude people in pvp] is 100. You just landed 200 dmg in one swing approximately. Your second swing is Exe. Strike which also hits for 100 dmg. So with just 2 hits with an axe, assuming double crit, you've just carved off 300 dmg in 2 seconds. If the enemy's hp was at 60%, they should be dead...

so, all you need is 2 crits and some bad math and it's great.

according to the guys above me, if the enemy was at 60% you wouldn't do 100 points on the wound.
for that matter, you wouldn't do it on him w/full hps if you had just landed that 100 hp blow ahead of the wound.

not knocking it, just gathering info as I can't test.

care to make comment on any of my other ?'s ?

edit ps

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glasswalker

In my experience, the fun part of this skill is when you use it at the end of a chain. 20% of their max health seams like a more significant drop when they only have 70 HP left.

if you used it at the beginning, wouldn't it do more damage?

if you use it when he's at 400, it does 80, but if you wait 'til he's at 75, it only does 15, right?

Dec 08, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40	#1
eom Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: W/N	effectiveness of max health lowering ie gash/deep wound? (pve) seems kind of pointless --- what would be a useful situation? I'm w/n and by the time I get my adren up, his helath has already been lowered. my partner is e/m, so the surrounding mob has also been lowered. if he is already below 80%, deep wound doesn't actually do any damage, does it? I'd test myself, but I only get 1 day/week on lan, so this has to be my lab. edit ps re: extra damage skills like galrath slash, etc do you actually get the damage listed, or is it modded by levels, attribute scores, and armor? thx Last edited by eom; Dec 08, 2005 at 11:45 PM // 23:45..

Dec 08, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44	#2
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Deep Wound lowers max health by 20% and also does damage equal to 20% max health. As long as they're not below 20% health, it'll be completely effective. As to how deadly Deep Wound is, it's one of the most devastating (well, not through Gash really). Since it also lowers healing by 20%, your attacks effectively do 25% more damage. __________________ People are stupid.

Dec 08, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55	#4
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Say an enemy has 100 health. Your ultimate attack - I dunno, Final Thrust maybe) - does 100 damage, which is 100/100 = 100% effective. Now, you get him with Deep Wound. Ignoring DW damage, he has 80 health now. You do 100 damage, which is 100/80 = 125% effective damage. If he was at full health, it'd be like you hit him for 125 damage rather than 100. __________________ People are stupid.

Dec 09, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12	#8
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Ok, you do 40 damage to a 400 hp enemy - that's 10% of his health (40/400). Cause Deep Wound on him - he's now down to 320 health (80% of 400). Hit him with 40 damage again - that's 12.5% of his health (40/320). 12.5 is 125% of 10. So effectively you're doing 125% of the damage you're normally doing. Yeah, it's a bit confusing... just understand that any damage is more effective with Deep Wound. __________________ People are stupid.

Dec 08, 2005, 11:59 PM // 23:59	#5
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	When it lowers their max HP - it also in doing that Deals 20% of their max HP to them. If his health is 100/100, you deep wound him - His Health is 80/80 (you took 20 from it). If his health is 60/100, you deep wound him - His health is then 40/80 (you took 20 from it). If his health would be 60/80, and I get your point if that was the case - using it on a non-dmged enemy would be the only way to see good benefits from it. Just rememer when it is lowered by 20% - It TAKES 20% of their Health with it...i think I think thats what Savio's orignal thing meant. Though I dont deep wound things myself :\

Dec 09, 2005, 12:18 AM // 00:18	#10
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	Simply - You ARE NOT doing any extra dmg than what you would be doing - Its just that the dmg happens to take more percentage of his health. Like 10 dmg to a 100 hp guy would be only 10% of his hp gone, but 10 dmg to an 11 hp guy..thats nearly 98% of his hp gone.

Dec 09, 2005, 12:19 AM // 00:19	#11
eom Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: W/N	wouldn't that just be the case of any damage following any other damage, if you spin it like that? doesn't each one of my blows do proportionately more damage if I just look at it in terms of their current health? also, if this 400 hp foe is currently at 200 when I deep wound him, will I actually do the 80 (20%) damage to him, or does it just lower his ceiling to 320 in case of healing?

Dec 09, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45	#15
Rico Carridan Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Eternal Comrades Profession: E/Mo	You're making this too complicated, this is basically all you need to know: If you hit an opponent with deep wound, their current and maximum health are both reduced by 20%. That's all there is to it. Rico

Dec 09, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30	#18
Yukito Kunisaki Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Profession: W/N	Deep Wound used to be bugged in that you can layer it... It's a good thing they stopped it, otherwise, everyone with a brain would go axe... What makes deep wound dangerous is that it lets you kill things super fast and the damage can be a lot worse then one would expect. 20% less hp and 20% less healing? big whup right? [wrong...] Imagine this, you're pounding on a foe [pvp or pve doesn't matter] and he/she dies and your adrenal skills are full. Let's use the classic Eviscerate and Exe. Strike. The next foe, who's armored or not, gets walloped at full hp with Eviscerate {E}, he immediately, for critical's sake, loses 100hp from the swing, assuming max level and it was a critical hit. 20% of 500 hp [which is the average for those pesky lvl 23+ enemies or vigor fortitude people in pvp] is 100. You just landed 200 dmg in one swing approximately. Your second swing is Exe. Strike which also hits for 100 dmg. So with just 2 hits with an axe, assuming double crit, you've just carved off 300 dmg in 2 seconds. If the enemy's hp was at 60%, they should be dead... In terms of sword, the 'classic' combo, which I dislike due to uncontrolled variables is Sever Artery, Gash, Galrath Slash, Final Thrust It takes twice as long to do as an axe's spike, but what's so deadly about it is that it lands bleeding + deep wound, a spike, and a super spike in 4 seconds and I've seen this combo kill soft targets in one use no questions asked and deals 80% dmg to an unprepared warrior... Deep wound technically let's you kill things faster. Why WOULDN'T you want it? Geez...

Dec 09, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15	#19
Glasswalker Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northwest Ascalon Guild: Freedom Profession: N/R	Well put Yukito. The additional side to Deep Wound has been touched on, but not truly explained -- and that's the 20% less healing. If you hit someone with max HP of 400 who is currently at full health, you lower their max by 80, so their new max for the duration of DW is 320. Then the damage is calculated in and (not counting on the crit) you do 28 damage with the swing itself they are at 292 of 320. You follow up with an Executioner's Strike doing 54 damage (he's now at 238 of 320). He uses Healing Signet, which at Tactics of 4 would usually heal for 70 points now only heals for 56 bringing him up to 294 instead of 308. Some argue that this 'effectively' means your ES did 14 extra damage. That is why people say that DW makes your other skills do more damage. In my experience, the fun part of this skill is when you use it at the end of a chain. 20% of their max health seams like a more significant drop when they only have 70 HP left. Oh, and one other thing. The Monk Enchantment Protective Spirit doesn't allow health to drop by more than 10% with a single attack, but if you use a DW skill on someone when they are at full health, their Max (and therefore their current) health drops by 20% anyway.